Howdy Sour Beer Fans!
Funky and sour beers have been gaining momentum for quite some time now. But for all the barrel aged sours and delicious Brettanomyces laced saisons: where have all the Berliner Weisses gone? To my surprise there are less than twenty widely available American commercial examples of this classic style, such as The Bruery’s Hottenroth, White Birch’s Berliner Weisse and Nodding Head’s Berliner Weisse.
That’s surprisingly low when compared to the plethora of more esoteric styles of sour beer widely available. More shocking (well, not too shocking considering the Germans have adopted lager as the core of their beer consumption) is that I can only find three German breweries that still produce this classic wheat-based sour beer: Berliner Kindl Brauerei, Gasthaus & Gosebrauerei Bayerischer Bahnhof, and Professor Fritz Briem. While it is hard to find examples from these breweries (Professor Fritz Briem 1809 Berliner Weisse is the only one that I’ve personally ever come across, and to be honest, it was a tad old), this is a style that’s super easy to brew, so you can have freshies all the time. So with that, let’s get lactic!
The history of this once booming style is a bit of a mystery. The original versions of Berliner Weisse were thought to be influenced from a style of Broyhan beer, named after Cord Broyhan, the brewer who concocted this wheat based brew in 1526. Over time, the style evolved into the tart, dry, and effervescent wheat beer we know today. Even Napoleon Bonaparte was touting Berliner Weisse as the “Champagne of the North”, but then, just as fast as those 700 German breweries were pumping it out, the style went the way of the dinosaurs. If I had to fancy a guess as to what led to the demise of Berliner Weisse, I would say it was the growing popularity of all those clean and delicious pale lagers throughout the region which eventually pushed out the tart and refreshing brew. Luckily for us, Berliner Weisse has made a steady comeback over the last half a decade thanks to both home brewers and the unquenched thirst of the American sour beer drinking population.
Style Overview
So what is a Berliner Weisse anyway? Well, I’m glad you asked, because it is a relatively simple, low ABV, pale wheat beer with a tart and clean lactic sourness. A majority of the flavor and aroma come from the malt bill. Flavors of crisp crackers, biscuit, wheat, and dough round out a pleasant lemony lactic sourness and light to moderate bouquet of fruity esters. When designing a recipe, you’re looking to create a session strength ale, anywhere from 2.8 to 3.8 ABV is appropriate. Any hop aroma is out of place in a classic example and hop bitterness, while appropriate, should be just barely present at a minimal 3 to 8 IBUs. (Don’t forget that hops inhibit Lactobacillus, so we highly encourage you to sour before the addition of hops to your process).
While I’m sure that Brettanomyces was commonly present in historic examples of the style, modern versions of the style typically portray little to no overt Brett character. Rather, these beers showcase a clean fermentation profile with a neutral yeast like German Ale Yeast from White Labs or Wyeast. Additionally the use of California Ale or other low-impact yeast strains is acceptable, just be sure to take care in selecting a strain that doesn’t produce much sulfur, or any significant phenols, as either will put you out of style. When serving these beers, it is traditional to carbonate to a high level, anywhere from 2.5 to 3.5 volumes of CO2 is appropriate.
In Germany, its uncharacteristic to drink the style by itself, it is much more commonly served with a light shot of raspberry or woodruff syrup to tone down the beer’s acidity. Most American sour fans (including us), prefer the style straight, or with fruit additions during fermentation in order to add complexity but maintain the tart and refreshing bite that we love in the beer.
Recipe Design
When deciding what malts to use be sure to keep it simple! In my opinion, the use of pilsner and wheat malts is the key to nailing this style. Not to say you couldn’t use other English or American pale malts, but you’d miss out on the delightful biscuit and cracker flavors that are showcased by Pilsen malt. The use of crystal malts (or really any specialty malts) is not encouraged since we are looking for a pale, crisp, and dry beer.
Another ingredient: hops, have an incredible influence over the outcome of your Berliner Weisses… most importantly not over hopping! Low-alpha German varietals such as Tettnang, Saaz, Hallertauer, and Spalt are classics, although I think using a tiny charge of Magnum works well also. Any American hops that show-off bold aromas of citrus, tropical fruits, or pine are out of style. We have found that Crystal, a low-alpha American hop, also plays nicely in these beers.
Methods of souring can vary significantly based on your equipment setup and needs. I will outline two classic ways to achieve the desired level of sourness without making something either completely lackluster or a full-on acid beer. First, let’s talk about acceptable levels of lactic acid. I like to shoot for a pH range of 3.3-3.7. Berliner Weisse shouldn’t be an enamel remover. Its tartness should complement the doughy, cracker and biscuit flavors, not steamroll over them. Likewise, for most palates, if the acidity is so strong that it’s impossible to detect the light bittering, its likely too sour.
Both of our methods are going to assume that at some point in the process you do want to include hops into the beer. If you are going for an un-hopped freestyle sour (or a dry-hopped sour), then technically you aren’t making a Berliner Weisse. So for the purposes of this article, I’m going to skip that concept. This really leaves a brewer with two options for souring the beer: either before or after the inclusion of hops in the boil.
Let’s start with the process that’s more difficult to pull-off successfully: souring after the hops have been added. To do this you’ll be mashing and boiling your Berliner recipe just like any other beer. In this process it is absolutely critical that the IBUs are low. We say 3 to 8, but staying at the lower end of this spectrum will dramatically increase your likelihood of achieving a beer with the acidity you want. After your wort is cooled to pitching temperature you can either fast-sour the wort by adding Lactobacillus first or you can co-pitch your Lactobacillus and Saccharomyces strains. The keys to making this approach work are:
- Selecting the right Lactobacillus L. plantarum (while a souring monster) is essentially completely hop intolerant. This is the same case with practically any pro-biotic based Lactobacillus blends. You are more likely to achieve success with large pitches of L. delbrueckii or L. brevis.
- Pitching the right cell counts. If pitching Lactobacillus alone, you want to shoot for around 1 million cells per mL per degree Plato (aka. classic ale yeast pitch rates). If co-pitching with an ale yeast, you want to pitch 5 times more Lactobacillus than Saccharomyces based on cell count. To learn how to create Lacto starters, click here.
- Giving the beer ample time. With hops present, your Lactobacillus will be fighting an uphill battle. Expect longer than average times for souring.
Sour Beer Blog’s Fast Souring Flowchart
The second option: souring before the addition of hops, is our preferred method for producing Berliner Weisses at Sour Beer Blog. This method is outlined in detail in our Fast Souring Flowchart in this article. When carried out successfully, this process allows you to quickly sour your wort within a timeframe of 24 to 48 hours, then boil it a second time allowing you to add the desired level of hops to the beer. A benefit of this method, that is particularly applicable to Berliner Weisse production, is the fact that the second boil will also volatize away a number of slightly-off flavors and aromas produced by Lactobacillus fermentation. While a healthy Saccharomyces ferment will help to clean up these flavors as well, the second boil does a great job of producing a truly clean and crisp Berliner Weisse.
Here is the process we use to produce our classic Berliner Weisse:
- Grist: 40% White Wheat Malt, 30% Bohemian Pilsner Malt, 30% Maris Otter.
- Brewing Water: Reverse Osmosis H2O with 1 ml of 10% phosphoric acid per gallon to all water used. ½ teaspoonful of calcium chloride and ½ teaspoon of calcium sulfate added to the mash per 5 gallons of finished beer.
- Step Mash: 15 minutes at 130° F, 60 minutes at 155° F, then 5 minutes at 168° F. Fly sparge until you reach a pre-boil gravity of 1.051
- Boil wort for 15+ minutes, then cool to 95° F and transfer into Lactobacillus fermentation vessel, or leave in kettle if kettle souring. Because we ferment in Sankey kegs, we do not cool the wort at all. We transfer the boiling wort into the stainless steel kegs (with serving tubes removed) and cover the openings with aluminum foil. These are then allowed to slowly cool to 95 F over the next 12 to 24 hours. This completely pasteurizes the fermentation vessels and allows us to use single strain Lactobacillus souring without fear of contamination. As an additional precaution, it is recommended to pre-acidify the wort to pH 4.5 with lactic acid, although we often skip this step because we are confident in the pasteurization of our wort and in our sanitary handling procedures.
Pitch an appropriately sized Lactobacillus culture of your choosing. Hold at the preferred temperature for that strain until you reach your desired pH. For our recipe, we use the probiotic drink Goodbelly, at a rate of 1 carton per 12 gallons of wort, and we allow the wort to acidify to a pH of 3.45 to 3.5, which takes approximately 36 hours.- Transfer wort back to boil kettle or re-fire kettle with souring wort already inside.
- After souring, the gravity should be essentially unchanged. Our most recent batch dropped from 1.051 to 1.050.
- Boil for 90 minutes. Add US Crystal hops at 30 minutes targeting 8 IBUs.
- At end of boil, dilute using R.O. H2O to a starting gravity of 1.035 (this can be done earlier in the boil if contamination is a concern). It is interesting to note that diluting with pure water will not change the pH of your wort.
Cool wort to 65° F, oxygenate, and pitch healthy starter of German Ale / Kolsch yeast at an appropriate cell count. We used a slurry created by pitching 2 White Labs Pure Pitch packs into a 4.5 liter starter.- Ferment at 65° F for 5 to 7 days.
- Cold crash to 50° F for 2 days, then keg, carbonate, and enjoy!
- The final beer should reach a final gravity of around 1.006 (82.4% attenuation, 3.8% ABV) and have a final pH in the 3.25 to 3.35 range.
Serving a Berliner Weisse
Carbonation is an important consideration when dialing in a classic Berliner Weisse. I would shoot for 2.8 to 3.5 volumes to keep it nice and spritzy. At serving time, the use of syrups: both woodruff and raspberry are the traditional choices. But I encourage you to get creative! Even though these beers are very nice and refreshing on their own, the addition of syrups made from tasty and interesting fruits can add a fun and complex twist of flavors to your Berliners.
Here are two recipes for the classic syrups. It is easy to substitute other fruits or herbs into these recipes to create your own unique versions:
Raspberry Syrup
Ingredients:
- 2 cups of fresh or frozen raspberries
- 1 & ½ cups of granulated sugar
- 1 tablespoon of lemon juice
- ½ cup light corn syrup
- 1 cup water
Preparation:
- Puree raspberries in blender and strain to remove seeds
- Add water, raspberry puree, water, sugar, lime juice and corn syrup in a small saucepan and bring to a boil for one minute. Stir to cool and skim foam off top and refrigerate for one hour before use.
Woodruff Syrup
Known in Germany as Waldmeistersirup, this is a popular type of syrup made from woodruff that is used to sweeten pale ales, as well as the traditional Berliner Weisse. It’s typically green in color.
Ingredients:
- 1 bunch sweet woodruff
- 800 g sugar
- 500 ml water
- 125 ml lemon juice
- 1 teaspoon citric acid
Preparation:
- Combine the water, sugar, lemon juice and citric acid in a pan and heat gently until the sugar dissolves to form a syrup.
- Take off the heat and set aside to cool.
- Meanwhile, strip the leaves from the sweet woodruff and stuff into a 1 to 1.5 liter
- When the syrup has cooled, pour into the bottle with the sweet woodruff leaves.
- Transfer to the refrigerator and allow to steep for about 5 days, turning every day, or until the woodruff flavor has been imparted into the syrup.
- After five days strain the syrup (discard the leaves) then pour the liquid into a clean bottle and store in the refrigerator.
In Germany it’s common to add a little green food coloring to the woodruff syrup to make it green. The syrup is used as a cordial, to be mixed with water. In addition to serving as a beer flavoring, it can also be poured over pancakes or ice cream.
Ending Thoughts
With summer rapidly approaching, the fact that Berliner Weisse is a super crushable style makes it the perfect beer to get you started on your journey into sour and funky brewing. The style is simple to brew. From its simple grain bill to its quick souring method, Berliner Weisse is sure to become a new favorite! Add in the fact you can make all sorts of fruit syrups or even just add fruit right into secondary and the limits are endless! So fire up those mash tuns and kettles and get brewing!
As always please email us with your questions and comments.
Cheers and Keep it Funky!
Cale “Sour Brew” Baker
Dr. Lambic on Berliner Weisse
There is no doubt that a well-brewed Berliner Weisse offers its fans a tasty, clean, and easy drinking sour beer. Though, for me, the concept of what this style of beer represents is even more exciting than the resulting beer itself… And this concept is ACCESSIBILITY. The fact that this odd little sour beer, which had become nearly extinct in its home region, has become popular among American craft beer drinkers has done a great deal to promote the entire spectrum of sour beers into the mainstream. Berliner Weisse has done this by asking brewers a simple question: Can you make a sour beer as quickly and easily as the other ales in your portfolio? We now know that the answer to this question is a resounding YES! However, this was not always the case. When I started brewing about 7 years ago, the conventional wisdom was that Berliner Weisses took about 3 months to properly mature. The concept of single strain Lactobacillus fermentation, which I have been proud to help popularize, allows us to create these beers in a matter of weeks. This is exciting because it makes the idea of keeping a sour beer on draft as a full-time offering a very plausible option for both home and craft brewers.
But conceptually, that’s not all that Berliner Weisse has to offer. Berliner Weisse also stacks the deck by being session strength, devoid of flavors and aromas that we would call “funky”, and by generally avoiding levels of acidity that could melt your face off. The fact that these traits work so well in this beer opens up the creative brewer to start incorporating them in a variety of Berliner Weisse inspired sour beers. Do these beers need to be 50% wheat and 50% pilsner malt? Certainly not.. Why not 100% Pilsner? Why not add some Vienna? How about Maris Otter? Could I use Oats and Rye? The answer to all of these questions will be: Of Course!
What about hop bitterness and flavor? Can I use more? What about a dry-hopped sour pale ale? A session-able sour English Mild? I’ve never had one… but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be delicious!
Can I add fruits, vegetables, spices? Knock yourself out! You’ll know in a couple of weeks whether your plan actually works, rather than waiting 6 months for sour beers with a more complex fermentation scheme.
You want more complexity you say? Fine.. Split your batch. You can drink the finished half of your Berliner-esque beer for the next two months while the Brettanomyces and home-grown peaches you toss into the second half transform your beer into something unique, and possibly extraordinary!
But Dr. Lambic… I tried a few Berliner Weisses at a local festival that both smelled and tasted like toe-jam, vomit, or literally poop. I don’t think I like this style? Well my friend, in this case you’ve never actually had the style. Because a properly brewed Berliner Weisse (or any beer made using a fast-souring process) should never smell or taste like one of the most vile substances to come out of the human body. When properly made, these are delicious beers that you can drink in large quantity (always drink responsibly!).
The bottom line with Berliner Weisse is that if you haven’t yet tried your hand at brewing one, you absolutely should! And once you’ve rocked out a great version of the classic style, let your imagination run wild with possibilities! Trust me, you, your friends, and/or your customers will not be disappointed with steady access to this outstandingly drinkable sour beer and all of its creatively concocted cousins!
Cheers!
Matt “Dr. Lambic” Miller
If you enjoyed this article, we also recommend reading:
Understanding, Brewing, and Blending a Lambic Style Kriek
References:
“BJCP Style Guidelines.” BJCP Style Guidelines. Beer Judge Certification Program, n.d. Web. 24 May 2016.
Kuplent, Florian. “Berliner Weisse-From Past to Present.” Morebeer.com. Morebeer, 07 Feb. 2013. Web. 20 May 2016.
“Syrup Recipes, Cocktail Sweeteners and More Additives.” Syrup Recipes, Cocktail Sweeteners and More Additives. Cocktails of the World, n.d. Web. 26 May 2016.
As always, very well done. Slowly but surely I think my blog will simply just become links to yours. Couldn’t have said it better. 🙂 Great stuff!
Thank you for the high praise! Cheers Brian!
With a recent surge in craft beer breweries in Berlin, there are now more German breweries that produce a proper Berliner Weisse. BrewBaker started reviving Berliner Weisse about 4 or 5 years ago. Soon after, Andreas Bogk of Bogk Bier came along and started brewing Weisse using Brettanomyces revived from a 30 years or so old bottle of East-German Berliner Weisse. More recently, Schneeeule, another brewery solely focusing on Berliner Weisse was launched, and other local craft breweries start popping up with small batches of Berliner Weisse. There’s also a Berliner Weisse Beer Festival going on every year (it started 3 years ago), so fortunately and thanks to a number of local craft brewers, the beer style is again alive and kicking in Berlin.
Its great to hear that Berliner Weisse is gaining more traction in its home country. Thank you for the update! Cheers!
Is there any possibility that Berliner Weisse was somehow an offspring of acid rests that became infected? I’m not terribly familiar with optimal temps for Lacto, but from what I understand acid rests were generally done for several hours (possibly overnight but I don’t know) to lower mash pH and in the 90-120 degree range. Isn’t that ideal conditions for Lacto propagation?
I’m not informed enough on historic German brewing processes to venture a guess as to whether this was occurring.. But if it was, then yes, your theory makes a lot of sense. These temperatures are definitely the “sweet spot” for Lactobacillus growth.
matt – im curious about head retention in berliner weisse beers. a number of american breweries are producing berliners now but when they pour into a glass there is next to zero head retention. they often come off more soda like than beer like. what steps could a homebrewer follow to produce a berliner that had a nice fluffy head in a tart sour beer like this or other sour beers?
Head retention can be an issue in Berliner Weisse and in a wide variety of sour beer styles. While I have not personally done any controlled tests on the matter, a number of brewers are suggesting that pre-acidification of the wort to 4.5 can help prevent the head retention issue. The theory is that at higher pH’s Lactobacillus bacteria break down a number of head-positive proteins, but at lower pH’s this proteolysis is inhibited.
Dr Lambic –
Just one question in regards to pre-boil OG being so much higher than the finished OG after “diluting” (1.051 and 1.035 respectively). Is there a reason for not using a smaller grist bill and running off to 1.030 and boiling down to 1.035?
Great post – Thanks!
Hi Clif,
We ran the souring fermentation on a more concentrated wort simply to maximize our output given the vessel sizes we were working with (souring within a 15.5 gallon Sanke keg). While this works great and did not seem to have any negative impact on the final beer, there is no other reason to do this. The more traditional approach would be to simply target a lower OG throughout the entire process.
Cheers!
Matt
Thank you for a great write up! very detailed indeed. You mention when diluting, that the wort ph is unchanged, would this be the case if diluting with distilled water rather than RO? We are a 5 Bbl brewery and are looking at filling our 10 Bbl fermenter, as of yet we do not have an RO water source. Thank you again for the great articles.
Hi Scott, Thank you for the compliments! For the most part distilled and RO water should behave the same. They are just two different methods to achieve the same result: water that is very low in dissolved ions. Keep in mind that while pH does not change significantly with dilution, the Titratable Acidity will change. Diluting will proportionally reduce the actual sour flavor on the palate. In our case, that’s exactly what we are looking for because we prefer our Berliners to be tart rather than ripping-sour.
Cheers!
Dr. Lambic – Great post as always! Thanks for all the info. I’m hoping you can help me trouble shoot a bit. After reading your Lacto 2.0 post, I decided to brew my first Berliner Weisse using the souring pre-hops method. The beer came out crystal clear and VERY sour (I let the lacto fermentation go on a bit too long). Unfortunately, it’s also got a bit of lacto-funk character to it, which in a beer like this has nowhere to hide. I used L. Delbruekii, built up in an appropriate sized starter according to your recommendations. My thoughts on where the funkiness is coming from:
1) Big temperature fluctuations. My means of keeping the temperature in a good Lacto range was fermenting inside an igloo cooler. I was fermenting about 3 gallons and adding hot water around the outside of the fermenter at regular intervals. I managed to keep the temperature outside the fermenter between 90 and 110 oF. I knew such temperature swings probably weren’t ideal, but it was the best I could do with my current equipment and schedule. There were definitely some cooked cabbage/ sauerkraut smells coming out of the fermenter, which are similar to the funky flavor in the finished beer.
2) Length of Lacto fermentation. I ended up letting the Lacto go to work on the wort for 3 days. Mostly just due to my work schedule. I now wish I’d stopped at 2, as the sourness is now beyond balanced.
3) Sach. fermentation. I used Safale-05 for the Sach. fermentation. Since I was only making 3 Gallons, I didn’t make a starter. Since the pH was so low, however, I’m wondering if directly pitching the rehydrated yeast was a mistake, and whether or not that played any role. The beer finished at 1.010 (although it doesn’t taste that way), which is another sign that the Sach. had trouble doing its job.
My own feeling is that #1 is probably the most likely source of the funk. I know I’ve only included some of the details of my brew, but if you have a minute, I’d love your thoughts on how I could improve and clean up my act on the next go round.
Thanks!
Pete
Hi Pete,
While its difficult to pinpoint the exact source of the funkiness, I would lean towards three possibilities. The big temperature fluctuations may have had an effect to produce more of these sauerkraut flavors / aromas. Another big possibility is strain selection. We’ve noticed a moderate to high level of these aromas with all of the L. delbrueckii fermentations that we’ve run (not specifically in Berliner Weisses, just Lacto fermentations in general). Typically when we use L. delbrueckii (both White Labs and Gigayeast’s strains) we have also been aging the beer on Brett for some portion of time and that has always seemed to eliminate the odors in the final beer. That brings us to the third possibility which would be a non-vigorous Sacc fermentation. Generally, when it comes to volatile off-aromas (like DMS and potentially this sauerkraut aroma), the more active the Sacc fermentation, the more of these compounds will be scrubbed out of the beer by carbon dioxide off-gassing.
We love the Lacto strain in Goodbelly probiotics for producing very clean smelling and tasting acidification, and I highly recommend that product for delicate beers like Berliner Weisse. So my overall recommendations would be to try that or other L. plantarum strains for the souring process, and make sure to use a starter / oversized pitch of Sacc for a vigorous fermentation.
Good luck with your future brews! Cheers!
Thanks so much for the detailed response. I’ll take note of all these suggestions for my next Berliner Weisse brew! Not sure if I can find Goodbelly products where I live (Amsterdam), but will look into it.
On a related note to what you mentioned about aging with Brett. I racked part of this batch into a 1 Gallon carboy with Brett Lambicus. I just tasted for the first time after 10 weeks of aging and the sauerkraut funk has significantly diminished. Not quite gone entirely, but it seems to be headed towards being a delicious, clean beer after all. Thank you Brettanomyces (and thanks again for the help, Dr. Lambic)!
Was the goodbelly pitched at 95 degrees? Did you hold it at 95 degrees over the three days of souring?
We recommend holding Goodbelly at between 85 – 95 F throughout the souring process. In our initial brew of this recipe, we tried pitching the Goodbelly at 85 F and allowing the temp to free fall over the course of a day to around 65 F. This didn’t produce much acidification, so we raised the temp back up to 90 F. Within 24 hours of raising the temp back up, the beer’s pH had dropped to 3.47
Cheers!
Thanks doctor! I brewed up your recipe last night. Any promlem leaving glass car boys in direct sunlight to keep them warm? I live in Florida and the tempature is perfect
My pleasure! In regards to direct sunlight, I would recommend wrapping the carboy in a black or darkly colored cloth. It should maintain all of the same heating benefits while also protecting the beer from direct exposure to the sunlight, which can increase the formation of compounds which make a beer taste stale.
I am planning on trying the Good Belly method this week. In regards to wort pre-acidification, I have no idea how much 10 percent phosphoric acid I will need to add to bring the ph down to 4.5 before the lacto fermentation. I know I can do trial and error but I am unsure on the amount to start with and the amount of time I need to weight for the ph change to occur.
Could you give me some guidlines to follow to perform the pre-acidification?
Thanks,
Tad
Hi Tad,
There is no accurate way to predict exactly how much lactic or phosphoric acid to add to a wort to reach pH 4.5 because the buffering capacity of any wort can change from batch to batch. That being said, for 5 gallons of wort coming off a mash that was held around 5.2, I usually add 10 ml of 10% phosphoric acid to start and then test the pH after 1 minute of vigorous stirring. From that point I will make my next addition based on the result. pH is a logarithmic scale, so it will take more acid to keep going lower in pH. For example: If my next reading was only 4.9, I may add another 20 ml to attempt to reach the target. If it had dropped to 4.7, I would add another 10 mL. Even though the first dose lowered the pH by 0.5 points, it will take more acid per point of pH drop to continue to move down the scale. pH adjustment in a solution after the addition of an acid or base is very rapid, stirring vigorously for about a minute is plenty of time to allow the change to occur so that you can take your next reading.
Cheers!
Matt
Just wanted to let you know that I followed your recipe to a T. Held the wort at 95-100 and the PH was down to 3.5 around the 60 hour mark. Cooled half and pitch kolsch yeast. Other half I added coriander and salt to make a gose. Both turned out great, I think the Marris Otter really gives a nice bready finish to this beer. Thanks for the help and keep up a great and informative blog.
Best,
Keith
Thank you for the feedback Keith! Its always awesome to hear when our information has helped to make great beer!
Cheers!
Matt
How do you think WY1007 German ale would compare with WY2565 Kolsch.
Hi Keith,
I think these two strains are very similar if not identical and would both add a nice bit of extra complexity to the flavor profile.
Cheers!
Matt
So you don’t cool the wort, right, because you use sankey kegs. But if I’m racking to a normal bucket, should I cool down and have a cold break?
Hi Louise,
Regardless of fermenter type, you can always cool the wort down to pitching temperature (in this case somewhere between 90-100 F) before transferring. We use the hot runoff into stainless fermenters to guarantee wort pasteurization before we pitch the Lacto. If you cool first, use extra caution to minimize air exposure or other sources of potential bacterial contamination. Additionally, to reduce the risk of unwanted bacterial contamination we advise following the steps recommended in the article Fast Souring With Lactobacillus.
Cheers!
Matt
I’m trying this technique on my Berliner Weisse. I used WLP677 (actually I planned to use Wyeast 5335, but unfortunately they didn’t have these in my shop) with pre-acidification to 4.5 pH, I’m keeping the fermentor at 35 °C (95 °F) and after 2 days it has still pH around 4.0, so I’m waiting. My question is: I measured SG and during 2 days it dropped about almost 3 degrees plato. I thought that the drop should be pretty low, is this normal? I don’t worry about the contamination yet cause the beer smells and tastes good…
Hi Petr,
Typically when we see a gravity drop of more than 1-2 Plato (4 to 8 points SG) this is due to a contamination due to some type of yeast fermenter. Often we also see this result in less acidification because these yeast fermenters will preferentially ferment the free glucose in the wort before the Lactobacillus have a chance to utilize it (Lactobacillus are much slower to acidify with more complex sugars such as maltose). As long as the flavors/aromas are pleasant, there’s no need for concern. Just review all of your practices to try to avoid potential sources of contamination for the next batch.
Cheers!
I used the GoodBelly Coconut Water (stored cold and fresh at our supermarket for only $3.99)
The sour that resulted was amazing! Perfectly clean and 36 hours to 3.5
I tweeted at the company and it seemed like they weren’t aware of its beer superpowers.
Quick question? I see diacetyl listed on the forums as a problem with lacto ferments. I used the German ale smack pack, should I add a rise at the end of the 5-7 days before cold crashing?
Hi Scott,
The coconut flavored Goodbelly is my favorite product/strain for creating a very clean sourness as well! As far as diacetyl rests go, I personally recommend them (or a temperature rise in general) for all beers. Raising the temperature up a few degrees during the last 10-25% of a beer’s attentuation is a best practice for any beer regardless of yeast strain choice.
Cheers!
So this beer came out great! I’m having another issue, I wanted to see if it’s something you’ve ever run into. I put it in a keg and force-carbonated but I’m getting nothing by foam.
I’ve checked everything, I replaced my lines, I put 11 feet on there to accommodate a slightly higher carbonation level. All of the standard things to prevent foaming haven’t worked. I have no problems with any other beers .
So the question I guess is, is this style related or should I just continue to hunt down the ghost in the machine?
I found this he ghost in the machine. A bad post must have been letting air in.
It was driving me crazy!!! I balanced everything and cleaned well.
Replacing the post (which had no visible defects, and had been cleaned in PBW then Star Sanned after every keg) fixed the issue.
Since I seemingly can’t delete my previous comment, thought I would clear it up.
Again, this recipe is great. The GoodBelly worked surprisingly well.
Cheers!
I’m a long time all-grain home brewer, and brew a lot of German Ales… I’m looking forward to trying this. A few questions:
Your suggested method in this Berliner is to boil after the Lacto… but can you Lacto after boil (as described in your Fast Souring article) and keep close to style?
Would the probiotics stay present and active in the finished product? Can you mildly dry hop during the Sac fermentation and not destroy the probiotics? As you can see, I’m looking to preserve the Goodbelly probiotics in the finished beer.
Thanks much for your fine articles.
Dan
Hi Dan,
You can definitely perform a normal boil, then pitch Lactobacillus, and once the acidity you’re looking for has been achieved, simply cool the wort down and pitch Saccharomyces. I prefer to oxygenate before pitching Sacc in these cases to help with a healthy fermentation. The Lactobacillus will survive into the final product when doing this. One word of caution is that the Lacto can continue to acidify the beer during Saccharomyces fermentation, so there is a chance that the beer becomes more sour than intended. Ultimately, you would just have to fine tune your process once you know how the strains you decide to use behave together. As far as dry-hopping goes, their affect on the Lactobacillus community in the beer will vary depending on strain, but as a general rule hops (including dry hops) will slow or stop further Lactobacillus growth and metabolism, but they will not actually kill off Lactobacillus cells.
Cheers!
Matt
Great article. I have only made one sour beer and the results were…less than great. Berliner weisse sounds like a good, easier sour to help build my confidence. As a total novice when it comes to brewing sours, I had a few questions. First, I keg almost all of my home brews. So, if I choose to boil again after the lacto has done its job and before pitching my German ale yeast, would I remove the possibility of cross contaminating my other non-sour beers when I keg? Second, can you explain why you choose not to pitch a lacto strain from white labs or wyeast? I am completely ignorant to using anything beyond those when souring a beer. Should I consider using Goodbelly instead of a different lacto strain? If so, how do I do that (do I just pour a container into my wort?)? That’s a lot of questions, sorry, but I love sours and really want to start brewing my own. Thanks.
Hi Justin,
Thank you for the compliment! I’ll answer your questions in order:
– When boiling after souring with Lactobacillus, you’ve eliminated any greater risk of infection than your “clean” beers have. There’s always some risk of infection on the cold side, but boiled sour beers are just as sanitized as clean styles of beer.
– We chose not to pitch a Lactobacillus strain from White Labs or Wyeast because, in our experience, those strains work better to slowly create acidity in aged sour beers. For fast and aggressive acidification, the strains from Omega Yeast, Gigayeast, or Goodbelly, work wonderfully.
– If you do decide to use Goodbelly, you can just pour a carton (or a few of the “shots”) into your wort. The strain works the fastest when held at around 90 degrees F, but will also acidify well at lower temps given a bit more time.
Good luck brewing your first Berliner!
Matt
I’m looking to give this recipe a shot, but being somewhat new to homebrewing (5 batches), I do partial mash brews. Do you have any recommendations for DME or LME and base grains for a comparable recipe? I’m looking at a 5-5.5 gallon brew.
Looking forward to hopefully trying this recipe out. You’re now the third separate source touting great things from Goodbelly, so I’m curious to see what the hoopla is about.
You’ve got a great learning resource here, thanks so much!!!
I am working on my recipe for my first Berliner using the kettle sour technique. I am planning on using your recipe as a guideline for mine, but I want to make a fruited Berliner, so I’ll be using the Pomegranate/Blackberry or the Mango Goodbelly product. How much of the flavor from the GoodBelly product remains in the final beer?
I just brewed my Berliner on Saturday and it is currently souring. I used roughly half a carton of the mango Good Belly for our 6 gallons of wort, purged the kettle with co2, and wrapped a heating band around the kettle. I am planning on doing my 60 minute boil today, but I am a little freaked out because the wort smells bad (maybe some of that vomit or dirty diaper smell). It isn’t overwhelmingly but it’s definitely there. I had read that that is somewhat “normal” and should go away when I boil. Is that true? Do you have any advice? Thanks!
Hey Dr. Lambic,
Wondering if you have used the new version of coconut goodbelly. I used it on my last batch and it came out funky, in a bad way. Not sure if my sanitation or if it was the change in the goodbelly.
Thanks in advance,
Keith
Hi Keith,
I haven’t yet used a new version of Coconut Goodbelly. It’s my understanding that no change has been made to the strain of L. plantarum that it contains. When any single batch of beer goes awry, my first suspect is always sanitation / process. I would recommend testing it again.
Cheers!
Hello Dr. Lambic,
Love your blog! always a go-to resource for me as I continue to learn how to make sour beer. My question is about my recent experience using goodbelly to quick sour 5 gal of wort. I boiled the wort (OG 1.060, no hops, all extract) for 15 min or so, cooled to 100F and transferred to a plastic bucket fermentor. I then lowered the pH to ~4.7 with lactic acid, dumped in 1/2 carton of mango goodbelly (16FL oz), snapped on the lid with an airlock and let it do it’s thing (no temp control). The pH dropped to about 3.6 over 72 hours and during the final 24 hours I had substantial ‘fizzing’ and a thin foamy froth on top of the wort. The airlock was bubbling like a healthy fermentation was occurring and the gravity dropped to 1.050. No noticeable off-flavors or smells so I proceeded to pitch a couple packs of US-05 and its currently fermenting away in my closet. Maybe I picked up some wild yeast when transferring, but this seems unlikely to me. I’ve read a few accounts of CO2 ( and maybe ethanol?) production from goodbelly. Are you aware of the L. plantarum in goodbelly acting like this?
Thanks in advance,
Anthony
Hi
I’m making a berliner weiss and in the process of reducing the ph level to 4.5 prior to the addition of the lactobaccilus, I miscalculated the amount of acid required, resulting in a ph of 3.1.
I am keen to achieve the souring through the lacto and not through acid alone, so I was wondering if there was anyway to bring the ph back up to 4.5? I know that I could use a lot of baking soda and chalk, but I am concerned this will result in undesiable tasting wort due to extremely high calcium levels and high sodium levels.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.